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	<title>Comments on: Have You Ever Wondered Why So Many Pastors Don&#8217;t Get Close to Church Members?</title>
	<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/</link>
	<description>living the gospel</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 07:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-92698</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 00:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-92698</guid>
					<description>you are a quick learner and I am slow to confront people socially. along with you, I have fine and lingering memories of our discussions together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you are a quick learner and I am slow to confront people socially. along with you, I have fine and lingering memories of our discussions together.
</p>
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		<title>by: Chad</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-92697</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 00:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-92697</guid>
					<description>Nathan,

I confess, I fall easily into the trap of wanting to know more from those above me. You made this clear what I was doing during our weekly men's meetings at Starbucks. I appreciated you calling me on this as it let me learn more from those around me. Your early suttle  ways of deflecting the questions to the other men were not noticed by myself at all.

In my new church's men's group the pastor often participates in the table discussions. With this knowledge I try to ask other members instead of just asking the pastor. Often, I purposely do not sit as his table so I can reach out to the other men. In the end has let me get to know them better. The table members interacts more with eachother.

I much appreciate our time we spent in Oregon as part of EPCA. However, employment takes me elsewhere and I tresure that time with the church as a whole.

In Christ
Chad</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>I confess, I fall easily into the trap of wanting to know more from those above me. You made this clear what I was doing during our weekly men&#8217;s meetings at Starbucks. I appreciated you calling me on this as it let me learn more from those around me. Your early suttle  ways of deflecting the questions to the other men were not noticed by myself at all.</p>
<p>In my new church&#8217;s men&#8217;s group the pastor often participates in the table discussions. With this knowledge I try to ask other members instead of just asking the pastor. Often, I purposely do not sit as his table so I can reach out to the other men. In the end has let me get to know them better. The table members interacts more with eachother.</p>
<p>I much appreciate our time we spent in Oregon as part of EPCA. However, employment takes me elsewhere and I tresure that time with the church as a whole.</p>
<p>In Christ<br />
Chad
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-91014</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-91014</guid>
					<description>James!!!!! I deeply appreciate your words but they are paling right now with the overwhelming joy I feel from connecting with you after so many years. I remember you as a child in New Life PCA. I remember your faith, your family, who knew what it means to pour Christ's love into relationships, to embrace the adoptive love of our heavenly Father. May God richly bless you wherever you are in this world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James!!!!! I deeply appreciate your words but they are paling right now with the overwhelming joy I feel from connecting with you after so many years. I remember you as a child in New Life PCA. I remember your faith, your family, who knew what it means to pour Christ&#8217;s love into relationships, to embrace the adoptive love of our heavenly Father. May God richly bless you wherever you are in this world.
</p>
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		<title>by: James</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-91004</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 16:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-91004</guid>
					<description>Nathan,

I think you hit the nail on the head with this point "Everyone tries to be friends with the leader, to be intimate with him rather than taking his lead of friendship and duplicating member to member." In the world we live in the mantra seems to be "It's not what you know, it's who you know".  In every aspect of life people are trying to cozy up to the "leader" because often times it tends to create better opportunities for them.  I imagine that this same mentality is taken by the congregation in a church (even if subliminally), maybe with the intent that a better relationship with the pastor means a better relationship with our Saviour.  How many congregational members of a church that keep a distance with the rest of the members but try to maintain a friendship with the pastor maintain a close walk with Christ at home during the week?  Pastoral friendship seems a natural extension of Christ's love of the church, and likewise the congregations friendship with others.  I assume that a healthy church would see that and then exude the same amongst each other and then within their own community, looking for opportunities to befriend everyone around them with the love of Christ.  Having known you much earlier in my life, I can surmise that no matter the distresses of friendship, you are a beacon of light and people are drawn to you.  In my experiences it is due to the love of Christ that is in you, shining outwardly.  Genuine light is hard to dislike.  I would say that rather than be congenial about someone moving to another church, challenge them about why they are leaving.  If they are leaving because they have friends that are at the mega church, or like the singing at the other church then they should be challenged.  If they are leaving because of a disagreement then that should be addressed so that the flock can be kept healthy.  A shepherd needs to ensure that his sheep don't wander off to another area that portends to have greener grass, yet lies on the edge of a cliff.  To me, moving to a mega church creates anonymity for the person which puts them on a slide towards death.  Anonymity in my mind being the antithesis of friendship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>I think you hit the nail on the head with this point &#8220;Everyone tries to be friends with the leader, to be intimate with him rather than taking his lead of friendship and duplicating member to member.&#8221; In the world we live in the mantra seems to be &#8220;It&#8217;s not what you know, it&#8217;s who you know&#8221;.  In every aspect of life people are trying to cozy up to the &#8220;leader&#8221; because often times it tends to create better opportunities for them.  I imagine that this same mentality is taken by the congregation in a church (even if subliminally), maybe with the intent that a better relationship with the pastor means a better relationship with our Saviour.  How many congregational members of a church that keep a distance with the rest of the members but try to maintain a friendship with the pastor maintain a close walk with Christ at home during the week?  Pastoral friendship seems a natural extension of Christ&#8217;s love of the church, and likewise the congregations friendship with others.  I assume that a healthy church would see that and then exude the same amongst each other and then within their own community, looking for opportunities to befriend everyone around them with the love of Christ.  Having known you much earlier in my life, I can surmise that no matter the distresses of friendship, you are a beacon of light and people are drawn to you.  In my experiences it is due to the love of Christ that is in you, shining outwardly.  Genuine light is hard to dislike.  I would say that rather than be congenial about someone moving to another church, challenge them about why they are leaving.  If they are leaving because they have friends that are at the mega church, or like the singing at the other church then they should be challenged.  If they are leaving because of a disagreement then that should be addressed so that the flock can be kept healthy.  A shepherd needs to ensure that his sheep don&#8217;t wander off to another area that portends to have greener grass, yet lies on the edge of a cliff.  To me, moving to a mega church creates anonymity for the person which puts them on a slide towards death.  Anonymity in my mind being the antithesis of friendship.
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90854</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90854</guid>
					<description>Thanks, Dennis and David for your supportive comments and shared experience. I think that the three of us should get together at GA for lunch again to build our friendship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Dennis and David for your supportive comments and shared experience. I think that the three of us should get together at GA for lunch again to build our friendship.
</p>
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		<title>by: David Zavadil</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90740</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 19:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90740</guid>
					<description>Nathan,
Thanks for sharing these insights. In my nearly 20 years in the ministry, I have seen much of what you discussed. As one who has been exited from a church, I might add a fourth reason, plain old fear. After experiencing hurtful relationships, or seeing close friends getting hurt, there can develop a fear of building relationships. You fear getting too close because you might get hurt.

I hope we get a chance to catch up at GA this year. I have only been to one in the last three years. Maybe we can do a lunch, as we did in Pittsburgh. Take care my friend and may God bless your ministry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,<br />
Thanks for sharing these insights. In my nearly 20 years in the ministry, I have seen much of what you discussed. As one who has been exited from a church, I might add a fourth reason, plain old fear. After experiencing hurtful relationships, or seeing close friends getting hurt, there can develop a fear of building relationships. You fear getting too close because you might get hurt.</p>
<p>I hope we get a chance to catch up at GA this year. I have only been to one in the last three years. Maybe we can do a lunch, as we did in Pittsburgh. Take care my friend and may God bless your ministry.
</p>
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		<title>by: Dennis Griffith</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90693</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 03:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90693</guid>
					<description>Nathan,

Thank you for touching so beautifully on this difficult toptic.  I think it is important, though, for both pastors and church members to be aware of this tension that all pastors, and our families, have to live with.  Some of the deepest pain and feeling of rejection can come when a friend departs.  

Because of your post, some pastors who read this will know they are not alone when they go through this experience.  And I hope church members will gain some understanding about the fears their pastor - and his wife - may have, and the baggage they may be carrying.

Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>Thank you for touching so beautifully on this difficult toptic.  I think it is important, though, for both pastors and church members to be aware of this tension that all pastors, and our families, have to live with.  Some of the deepest pain and feeling of rejection can come when a friend departs.  </p>
<p>Because of your post, some pastors who read this will know they are not alone when they go through this experience.  And I hope church members will gain some understanding about the fears their pastor - and his wife - may have, and the baggage they may be carrying.</p>
<p>Thanks again.
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90683</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 21:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90683</guid>
					<description>Charlie: Our working together in the church has been beautiful. You "get" the mission of Jesus. Your recent help at RECON has been right on and well-received. Your attention to detail as an elder is much needed. Your concern for equity, for every voice to be heard, and every person to be valued is refreshing. All of us need to serve the gospel as a team. None of us can do our part or exercise our gifts and skills apart from the different offerings of our sisters and brothers in Christ.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie: Our working together in the church has been beautiful. You &#8220;get&#8221; the mission of Jesus. Your recent help at RECON has been right on and well-received. Your attention to detail as an elder is much needed. Your concern for equity, for every voice to be heard, and every person to be valued is refreshing. All of us need to serve the gospel as a team. None of us can do our part or exercise our gifts and skills apart from the different offerings of our sisters and brothers in Christ.
</p>
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		<title>by: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90596</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90596</guid>
					<description>Nathan, thank you for your thoughtful and provocative post.  A dozen different fruitful threads could follow on from this.  I, too, have been frustrated by the general tendency in the church at large for people to ask first -- and all too often only -- what their church can do for them.  What rank heresy!  Something must be done to break this introversion!  But what?  
For many years now I have admired your ministry, particularly your ability to connect with the non-Christian and with the un-churched.  I long to have such an impact, but I recognize that I too am ‘hardwired’ in many ways, so while I still long to have a greater interpersonal impact both inside and outside the Church, I recognize that the shape it takes in my life will be different than what I see in you and in others.
One thing I’d like to challenge you to think about:  How best can you work to reproduce your ‘friendliness ministry’ in others, so that we your parishioners might be more fruitful in our own friendliness both within and without the church?
I am reminded of a friend who was an ace in language learning on the mission field.  He shared his techniques with his co-workers and so extended his fruitfulness.  Then he left that field and began conducting seminars to teach language learning to new and veteran missionaries around the world.  The next stage in his career was when his seminars morphed into training for language learning facilitators who could assist those in their own circle.  Lately he has gone one step further -- training trainers.  This ministry path is taking a decidedly apostolic trajectory.
My point is that we need to be intentional in our fruitfulness, and not just rely on osmosis for things to catch on.  But I’m not sure just how this is best done in the case of friendliness.  You ministry in church planting in the northwest has also taken this sort of an intentionally fruitful trajectory.  We should spend some time figuring out how to take your friendliness ministry on a similar trajectory.  We at Evergreen -- and in the church at large -- would be the richer for it.
Of course, now I need to revisit the JFK mis-quotation and ‘ask not what your pastor can do for you ...’  So if I am to heed my own advice and eschew self-centredness (!), I suppose I need to examine my own life and see in what areas I can grow from merely blessing the church and the world (as if that could be called ‘merely’) into a broader and more fruitful ministry of helping others to similarly bless the church and the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan, thank you for your thoughtful and provocative post.  A dozen different fruitful threads could follow on from this.  I, too, have been frustrated by the general tendency in the church at large for people to ask first &#8212; and all too often only &#8212; what their church can do for them.  What rank heresy!  Something must be done to break this introversion!  But what?<br />
For many years now I have admired your ministry, particularly your ability to connect with the non-Christian and with the un-churched.  I long to have such an impact, but I recognize that I too am ‘hardwired’ in many ways, so while I still long to have a greater interpersonal impact both inside and outside the Church, I recognize that the shape it takes in my life will be different than what I see in you and in others.<br />
One thing I’d like to challenge you to think about:  How best can you work to reproduce your ‘friendliness ministry’ in others, so that we your parishioners might be more fruitful in our own friendliness both within and without the church?<br />
I am reminded of a friend who was an ace in language learning on the mission field.  He shared his techniques with his co-workers and so extended his fruitfulness.  Then he left that field and began conducting seminars to teach language learning to new and veteran missionaries around the world.  The next stage in his career was when his seminars morphed into training for language learning facilitators who could assist those in their own circle.  Lately he has gone one step further &#8212; training trainers.  This ministry path is taking a decidedly apostolic trajectory.<br />
My point is that we need to be intentional in our fruitfulness, and not just rely on osmosis for things to catch on.  But I’m not sure just how this is best done in the case of friendliness.  You ministry in church planting in the northwest has also taken this sort of an intentionally fruitful trajectory.  We should spend some time figuring out how to take your friendliness ministry on a similar trajectory.  We at Evergreen &#8212; and in the church at large &#8212; would be the richer for it.<br />
Of course, now I need to revisit the JFK mis-quotation and ‘ask not what your pastor can do for you &#8230;’  So if I am to heed my own advice and eschew self-centredness (!), I suppose I need to examine my own life and see in what areas I can grow from merely blessing the church and the world (as if that could be called ‘merely’) into a broader and more fruitful ministry of helping others to similarly bless the church and the world.
</p>
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		<title>by: nathan</title>
		<link>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90588</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 22:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://nathanlewis.org/2008/09/24/have-you-ever-wondered-why-so-many-pastors-dont-get-close-to-church-members/#comment-90588</guid>
					<description>I had returned from my daily run convinced that I should pull this posting thinking it to be a bit too much baring of my soul. I read your kind comments, approved them and decided that I should let it stand if it encourages others. Congratulations on 22 years of ministry!  Sixteen years ago I planted Evergreen Church in Beaverton, Oregon and I happily serve this congregation today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had returned from my daily run convinced that I should pull this posting thinking it to be a bit too much baring of my soul. I read your kind comments, approved them and decided that I should let it stand if it encourages others. Congratulations on 22 years of ministry!  Sixteen years ago I planted Evergreen Church in Beaverton, Oregon and I happily serve this congregation today.
</p>
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