Have You Ever Wondered Why So Many Pastors Don’t Get Close to Church Members?
Occasionally over the past 20 years of my pastoral ministry, a member of our congregation will invite me to an exit interview. Some of the conversation goes like this: “God is calling me to change churches but I don’t want to lose your friendship. You have been a good pastor and I am hoping that you will still drop by and smoke a cigar with me.” In the past I would respond by saying: “There are many good reasons for you to change churches, so don’t read any bitterness or jealousy into my response. Go in peace, but I will have to give my pastoral care and friendship to members of my congregation and those people who are lost yet in my web of relationships, so that I might give to them the gospel. All that to say that I will no longer be able to drop by to smoke that cigar with you. Why don’t you ask your new Pastor to drop by and visit with you in your home?” I kid you not, the most usual response is: “You’ve got to be joking. My new Pastor is the Minister of a church of 5,000 members and so I could never expect him to come visit me and spend time with me personally.” The irony of this response is biting and stands to hurt most pastors, who believe that the church includes their intimate care of members. It is as if the moral of the story is: “Don’t be a pastor and then your church will numerically grow as people leave smaller congregations where the pastor wastes time building relationships with the members.” Please don’t read any angst or bitterness into my presentation. I am a preacher’s kid and I have been a pastor for 20 years. I am simply broaching a topic that seems to be off limits because if a pastor brings it up then he must be jealous and sour. And so, I didn’t engage in this conversation with a dear friend of mine who called me on the telephone to tell me that he was transferring his membership to a mega-church in our community, but that he hoped that I would still be his friend and pastor, that I would hang out with him.
How can I tell him that it is nearly impossible for me to separate my being a friend and my being a pastor? You see, as his Pastor, I was his friend. I was not his friend who happened to be his pastor. At first consideration, you might think this to be a disingenuous distinction. You would only think so because you are not a Pastor, who understands the particular conflict of interest. A licensed counselor or psychologist and perhaps a medical doctor typically follow a policy of refraining from social interaction with a client. Should a Pastor regain his professional position in society and refuse to fraternize with members of his church? What would Jesus, the Chief Shepherd of the Church do? Did he call Matthew to follow him but then say to Matthew, “I’m sorry, I am professionally barred from coming to your home for the banquet you are hosting for all of your friends.” Of course, you know that Jesus participated in Matthew’s banquet and frequented many a social event where distinctions between people became fuzzy. And so, why is it that so many Pastors don’t get close to church members?
Allow me to answer this question from my personal experience and please do not think that I am bitter about my experience because I consider my pastoral calling and experience to be full of joy, privilege, and opportunity. Nevertheless, because I am a pastor, I tend to attend to these kinds of discrepancies in our minds concerning the nature and fellowship of the Church. First of all, it is my personal experience that a significant portion of Church membership in our day does not stick with a particular congregation for more than two to four years. Our world has shrunk, people change homes every several years, and take new jobs every several years. But there is among this group a number of people who are also restless, curious, non-committal. These people tend to think first of what a Church will do to meet their particular needs rather than think first of what they might have to offer to their fellow sisters and brothers in Christ. These people float from place to place. A typical young pastor begins his ministerial career investing himself in the lives of his congregation. When these people pull up stakes, he is disappointed, often depressed and then he becomes jaded. He thinks, “Why should I invest in these people’s lives when they are going to drift to another congregation and never plug in here to help us accomplish our particular mission to the glory of Christ?” These people would respond: “Don’t you understand that the Church is larger than your little congregation?” The Pastor would say, “Yes. But don’t you realize that the Church is comprised of congregations in which members are called together to do the mission of Christ? If people are going to float from one place to another, then it makes little sense for a pastor to invest his time and life in a person who will not do the same in the lives of others in that congregation or when they move on, pass the peace to their new congregation.” There’s the rub. If I knew that my pastoral investment in a person’s life would render them a loving, caring, relational member of their next choice of a congregation, then I would consider my time well-spent.
Secondly, it is my personal experience that the Church is largely bereft of friendship. For me, it is not a matter of friendship. I have many friends while many members of the Church have few friends. They don’t know how to make friends and maintain friendships and so they rely on me to be their friend. For me, it is not a matter of my need for friendship. I am friendly as a pastor to train and to promote friendship among members of the Church. If someone learns this lesson from me then I rejoice with them going elsewhere in the community or world to replicate the friendship of the Covenant. It is common human experience in any kind of group for its members to gravitate to the leader. This creates the “funnel phenomenon.” Everyone tries to be friends with the leader, to be intimate with him rather than taking his lead of friendship and duplicating member to member. This makes for a most unhealthy church community where everyone is trying to get time with the pastor and call him “friend.” A healthy church is one in which a web of relationships, even friendships spring up and flourish among friends. Any pastor who has experienced the “funnel phenomenon” begins to seriously consider pulling out of one on one meetings with members, social events dominated by church members, and any pastoral duties that would attract and endear members to him.
Thirdly, most members of the Church today have not thought of the office of Minister/Pastor as a classic profession. We would never think of becoming familiar with our attorney at law or our Internist. But we slip into becoming too familiar with our Minister/Pastor. In our day and age the popular movement has stripped the Minister of title so that few Pastors desire to be addressed as “Reverend,” or even “Pastor Jones.” At best, we ask members of the Church to address us as “Pastor Dave,” or simply “Hey, Dave!” Believe me, I am not one for decorum and title. I am most comfortable with someone calling me “Hey, Nathan Dude!” But I am tiring of the lack of respect. If you are going to call me “Nathan, Dude,” then respond in humility when I say, “Hey, sinner Dude, you should stop your extra-marital affair and reconcile to your wife.” It’s my official role as a Pastor to say this, but the guy who calls me “Nathan, Dude,” usually responds, “Hey, Nathan, Dude, who do you think you are to call my sin into question. After all, you are a sinner too. I know because you have hung out with me, had a couple brews and spoken openly about your sins and frailties and so why should I listen to you?” This response is precisely why thousands of pastors do not hang out with the members of their congregations.
Let me close by saying that I have every intention to continue hanging out with members of my congregation to drink whatever they serve me, converse with them about eternal and ultimate questions as well as discuss the recreations and mundane chores of this life. I will continue to build friendships and allow people to call me by my first name. I don’t expect every pastor to do so, but after 46 years, I am discovering that who I am is mostly a hardwired creation of God and so I best operate accordingly. With this I take upon myself momentary hurts and liabilities, including a tarnished reputation and respect, but I will do it mainly because my understanding of Jesus’ ministry was one that included such intimacy. In choosing this mode of ministry I also take upon myself many, many joys and blessings. From every member of the church who has in some way disappointed me or hurt me, I have also received the love of Christ in some sustained fashion and I have had the privilege of seeing the gospel pressed down into an individual and/or family experience. I wouldn’t trade these joys and privileges for sanity, security or privacy. But that’s how God has hard-wired me. Other pastors are hard-wired differently and so many of them don’t get close to the members of the Church.
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Reverend Nathan Dude, this is the first post I have read from you and it was sent by a member of the congregation where I have been a Pastor for 22 years. They were in training for ministry and ultimately decided to serve in a different way, so they understand many of the rubs of the calling.
Thank you for baring your heart in such a transparent way. You are absolutely right about the conflicted feelings we struggle with and I, for one, resonate with your conclusion.
I don’t know where you live, but we also live in a small town. In this setting, long tenure leads to seeing all your past “church friends” at the grocery store, ball games, and driving through town. Then when they need someone to do a funeral or etc they call you up. Bitterness is a real tempation, but I agree the joys outweigh the tears when I keep my perspective straight.
Thanks for sharing
I had returned from my daily run convinced that I should pull this posting thinking it to be a bit too much baring of my soul. I read your kind comments, approved them and decided that I should let it stand if it encourages others. Congratulations on 22 years of ministry! Sixteen years ago I planted Evergreen Church in Beaverton, Oregon and I happily serve this congregation today.
Nathan, thank you for your thoughtful and provocative post. A dozen different fruitful threads could follow on from this. I, too, have been frustrated by the general tendency in the church at large for people to ask first — and all too often only — what their church can do for them. What rank heresy! Something must be done to break this introversion! But what?
For many years now I have admired your ministry, particularly your ability to connect with the non-Christian and with the un-churched. I long to have such an impact, but I recognize that I too am ‘hardwired’ in many ways, so while I still long to have a greater interpersonal impact both inside and outside the Church, I recognize that the shape it takes in my life will be different than what I see in you and in others.
One thing I’d like to challenge you to think about: How best can you work to reproduce your ‘friendliness ministry’ in others, so that we your parishioners might be more fruitful in our own friendliness both within and without the church?
I am reminded of a friend who was an ace in language learning on the mission field. He shared his techniques with his co-workers and so extended his fruitfulness. Then he left that field and began conducting seminars to teach language learning to new and veteran missionaries around the world. The next stage in his career was when his seminars morphed into training for language learning facilitators who could assist those in their own circle. Lately he has gone one step further — training trainers. This ministry path is taking a decidedly apostolic trajectory.
My point is that we need to be intentional in our fruitfulness, and not just rely on osmosis for things to catch on. But I’m not sure just how this is best done in the case of friendliness. You ministry in church planting in the northwest has also taken this sort of an intentionally fruitful trajectory. We should spend some time figuring out how to take your friendliness ministry on a similar trajectory. We at Evergreen — and in the church at large — would be the richer for it.
Of course, now I need to revisit the JFK mis-quotation and ‘ask not what your pastor can do for you …’ So if I am to heed my own advice and eschew self-centredness (!), I suppose I need to examine my own life and see in what areas I can grow from merely blessing the church and the world (as if that could be called ‘merely’) into a broader and more fruitful ministry of helping others to similarly bless the church and the world.
Charlie: Our working together in the church has been beautiful. You “get” the mission of Jesus. Your recent help at RECON has been right on and well-received. Your attention to detail as an elder is much needed. Your concern for equity, for every voice to be heard, and every person to be valued is refreshing. All of us need to serve the gospel as a team. None of us can do our part or exercise our gifts and skills apart from the different offerings of our sisters and brothers in Christ.
Nathan,
Thank you for touching so beautifully on this difficult toptic. I think it is important, though, for both pastors and church members to be aware of this tension that all pastors, and our families, have to live with. Some of the deepest pain and feeling of rejection can come when a friend departs.
Because of your post, some pastors who read this will know they are not alone when they go through this experience. And I hope church members will gain some understanding about the fears their pastor - and his wife - may have, and the baggage they may be carrying.
Thanks again.
Nathan,
Thanks for sharing these insights. In my nearly 20 years in the ministry, I have seen much of what you discussed. As one who has been exited from a church, I might add a fourth reason, plain old fear. After experiencing hurtful relationships, or seeing close friends getting hurt, there can develop a fear of building relationships. You fear getting too close because you might get hurt.
I hope we get a chance to catch up at GA this year. I have only been to one in the last three years. Maybe we can do a lunch, as we did in Pittsburgh. Take care my friend and may God bless your ministry.
Thanks, Dennis and David for your supportive comments and shared experience. I think that the three of us should get together at GA for lunch again to build our friendship.
Nathan,
I think you hit the nail on the head with this point “Everyone tries to be friends with the leader, to be intimate with him rather than taking his lead of friendship and duplicating member to member.” In the world we live in the mantra seems to be “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know”. In every aspect of life people are trying to cozy up to the “leader” because often times it tends to create better opportunities for them. I imagine that this same mentality is taken by the congregation in a church (even if subliminally), maybe with the intent that a better relationship with the pastor means a better relationship with our Saviour. How many congregational members of a church that keep a distance with the rest of the members but try to maintain a friendship with the pastor maintain a close walk with Christ at home during the week? Pastoral friendship seems a natural extension of Christ’s love of the church, and likewise the congregations friendship with others. I assume that a healthy church would see that and then exude the same amongst each other and then within their own community, looking for opportunities to befriend everyone around them with the love of Christ. Having known you much earlier in my life, I can surmise that no matter the distresses of friendship, you are a beacon of light and people are drawn to you. In my experiences it is due to the love of Christ that is in you, shining outwardly. Genuine light is hard to dislike. I would say that rather than be congenial about someone moving to another church, challenge them about why they are leaving. If they are leaving because they have friends that are at the mega church, or like the singing at the other church then they should be challenged. If they are leaving because of a disagreement then that should be addressed so that the flock can be kept healthy. A shepherd needs to ensure that his sheep don’t wander off to another area that portends to have greener grass, yet lies on the edge of a cliff. To me, moving to a mega church creates anonymity for the person which puts them on a slide towards death. Anonymity in my mind being the antithesis of friendship.
James!!!!! I deeply appreciate your words but they are paling right now with the overwhelming joy I feel from connecting with you after so many years. I remember you as a child in New Life PCA. I remember your faith, your family, who knew what it means to pour Christ’s love into relationships, to embrace the adoptive love of our heavenly Father. May God richly bless you wherever you are in this world.
Nathan,
I confess, I fall easily into the trap of wanting to know more from those above me. You made this clear what I was doing during our weekly men’s meetings at Starbucks. I appreciated you calling me on this as it let me learn more from those around me. Your early suttle ways of deflecting the questions to the other men were not noticed by myself at all.
In my new church’s men’s group the pastor often participates in the table discussions. With this knowledge I try to ask other members instead of just asking the pastor. Often, I purposely do not sit as his table so I can reach out to the other men. In the end has let me get to know them better. The table members interacts more with eachother.
I much appreciate our time we spent in Oregon as part of EPCA. However, employment takes me elsewhere and I tresure that time with the church as a whole.
In Christ
Chad
you are a quick learner and I am slow to confront people socially. along with you, I have fine and lingering memories of our discussions together.