Comments on: The Classical School as a Polisher of Christian Character – Space for Engagement of Culture http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/ living the gospel Mon, 21 May 2012 21:59:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: nathan http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-116920 Thu, 21 May 2009 05:04:06 +0000 http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-116920 nicely put - I do see the study of Latin as an "exercise," certainly a fine base for the romantic languages and an aid to beautiful language and writing. I'm not prepared to give up on western civilization at the moment. Until recently, I assumed that Latin was a larger piece of our school's curriculum but discovered that it actually plays a smaller role - if I'm not mistaken, only three terms. Our principal is presently forming a committee to draft the Rhetoric school's curriculum and I anticipate at least Spanish along with one or two additional languages to be taught at this senior level. I agree with you concerning the church supporting its ideals with financial and communal support. All in good time. nicely put - I do see the study of Latin as an “exercise,” certainly a fine base for the romantic languages and an aid to beautiful language and writing. I’m not prepared to give up on western civilization at the moment. Until recently, I assumed that Latin was a larger piece of our school’s curriculum but discovered that it actually plays a smaller role - if I’m not mistaken, only three terms. Our principal is presently forming a committee to draft the Rhetoric school’s curriculum and I anticipate at least Spanish along with one or two additional languages to be taught at this senior level.
I agree with you concerning the church supporting its ideals with financial and communal support. All in good time.

]]> by: Margie http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-116869 Wed, 20 May 2009 03:22:03 +0000 http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-116869 Hi, Nathan! Well, I feel silly. I kept checking and checking the main landing page of this blog to see if you had replied to me, and it always said "No Comments"; but I guess that must have been referring to the entire classical school series. Then it dawned on me to click on the specific essay and, voila, there was your response! So, thanks for responding! So, you see Latin as an "exercise"; I see it as a distraction. I think the limited resources of most Christian schools, classical or otherwise, could probably be better utilized. I wish I could join the loud chorus of voices, many of whom I respect, in singing the praises of a Latin education, but in 21st Century America, I simply cannot. Interesting that you mentioned the success of the Roman Catholic Parochial system. I think protestant schools would do well to study the cause of that success. I believe it's due to the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has made the Christian education of every covenant child a priority and devoted time and treasure to that end. I'm afraid that protestants lack the conviction to put our money where our mouth is and do whatever it takes to ensure that every covenant child has the option of a Christian education. When a baby is baptized, we, the congregation, vow to help the parents raise their child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I think the question is: Do we really mean it? What do you think? Hi, Nathan!
Well, I feel silly. I kept checking and checking the main landing page of this blog to see if you had replied to me, and it always said “No Comments”; but I guess that must have been referring to the entire classical school series. Then it dawned on me to click on the specific essay and, voila, there was your response! So, thanks for responding!

So, you see Latin as an “exercise”; I see it as a distraction. I think the limited resources of most Christian schools, classical or otherwise, could probably be better utilized. I wish I could join the loud chorus of voices, many of whom I respect, in singing the praises of a Latin education, but in 21st Century America, I simply cannot.

Interesting that you mentioned the success of the Roman Catholic Parochial system. I think protestant schools would do well to study the cause of that success. I believe it’s due to the fact that the Roman Catholic Church has made the Christian education of every covenant child a priority and devoted time and treasure to that end. I’m afraid that protestants lack the conviction to put our money where our mouth is and do whatever it takes to ensure that every covenant child has the option of a Christian education. When a baby is baptized, we, the congregation, vow to help the parents raise their child in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. I think the question is: Do we really mean it?

What do you think?

]]> by: nathan http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-115729 Sat, 02 May 2009 06:45:07 +0000 http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-115729 Thank you, Margie for your past teaching at St. Stephen's Academy. I have always considered Latin to be a language exercise and tool - one among many. It may be helpful to employ several tools that accomplish the same task for sake of perspective and reenforcement. On the West Coast especially, Spanish makes sense. In regards to a private school as a ministry of the church, I would also agree that there are potential pitfalls we must avoid. Not all valid ministries of the church ought to be offered to everyone alike. As you know, my preference and practice is to make most ministries of the church open to everybody. But some groupings, projects, and missions are exclusive and rightly so. The snobbery is hard to stomach when a private school positions itself as you describe. A church run school must avoid this phenomenon at all costs. Actually, any school vested in education/academic pursuits should work daily and diligently to rid itself of pride. The economic factor is a big problem and one that is difficult to fight against as a school community organizes and improves. Rising tuition costs cut out fine people who truly need the school. The growing funds not only provide a higher quality of education but they can also reduce the student body to an exclusive economic class, which breeds the snobbery in time. Of course, the parochial system, has successfully fought against this for generations. Sadly, I must say that these problems plague the church even in congregations which do not offer schools as part of the ministry. Thank you, Margie for your past teaching at St. Stephen’s Academy. I have always considered Latin to be a language exercise and tool - one among many. It may be helpful to employ several tools that accomplish the same task for sake of perspective and reenforcement. On the West Coast especially, Spanish makes sense.
In regards to a private school as a ministry of the church, I would also agree that there are potential pitfalls we must avoid. Not all valid ministries of the church ought to be offered to everyone alike. As you know, my preference and practice is to make most ministries of the church open to everybody. But some groupings, projects, and missions are exclusive and rightly so. The snobbery is hard to stomach when a private school positions itself as you describe. A church run school must avoid this phenomenon at all costs. Actually, any school vested in education/academic pursuits should work daily and diligently to rid itself of pride. The economic factor is a big problem and one that is difficult to fight against as a school community organizes and improves. Rising tuition costs cut out fine people who truly need the school. The growing funds not only provide a higher quality of education but they can also reduce the student body to an exclusive economic class, which breeds the snobbery in time. Of course, the parochial system, has successfully fought against this for generations. Sadly, I must say that these problems plague the church even in congregations which do not offer schools as part of the ministry.

]]> by: Margie http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-115614 Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:55:36 +0000 http://nathanlewis.org/2008/04/28/the-classical-school-as-a-polisher-of-christian-character-%e2%80%93-space-for-engagement-of-culture/#comment-115614 Hi, Nathan! I enjoyed reading your series of essays regarding classical education in general and St. Stephen's in particular. I wish, however, that you had addressed a few things that you did not. As you know, I have a respectable background in classical education, having taught at St. Stephen's and having spent a great deal of time studying both the educational method and the movement. There are two things about it that concern me, and that very few people seem to want to discuss. First of all, in response to this particular essay, I am at a loss, even after all my study of the matter, to understand how the study of Latin prepares students to engage the culture. Rather the study of a language that is no longer spoken seems to me to be the type of knowledge Paul had in mind when he spoke of knowledge that "puffs up". I have read the lists of all the things Latin supposedly accomplishes, but as a teacher, it seems to me that these objectives are more efficiently accomplished through the study of English grammer and vocabulary and the study of a living, Latin-based language, like French or Spanish. If our goal is truly to produce students who will influence the culture in which God in His providence has placed them, it seems as though Spanish would be the best choice. My second concern really refers to your previous essay about the classical school as a ministry of the church. Understand that I have no lack of affection for St. Stephen's Academy. I greatly miss our family's involvement with the school. But I am concerned about efforts to make St. Stephen's into a classical, preparatory school--a school which, by it's very nature, must be exclusive rather than inclusive. I have no problem with Christian preparatory academies to rival the finest prep schools in the area (i.e. Catlin Gable, Oregon Episcopal, etc.). My concern has to do with such schools as a ministry of a local church. What other ministry of the church is exclusive rather than inclusive? Is it right to use the resources of the local church to develop an institution of learning that is beyond the reach of a significant number of church goers, either because of steep tuition or because of restrictive academic requirements? I'm not saying either of these are currently true in the case of SSA. I do, however, wonder if some might not like to see the school move in that direction. Should it do so, then would you question it's appropriateness as a ministry of the local church? I raise these questions hoping to stir discussion, preferably the kind of discussion that generates more light than heat. But if you think it will do otherwise, feel free to refrain my publishing my comments. I would, however, like to know your response. Perhaps you could email it to me. Again, thanks for taking the time to write these essays and post them to your blog. They were well worth reading. God bless! Margie Hi, Nathan!
I enjoyed reading your series of essays regarding classical education in general and St. Stephen’s in particular. I wish, however, that you had addressed a few things that you did not.

As you know, I have a respectable background in classical education, having taught at St. Stephen’s and having spent a great deal of time studying both the educational method and the movement. There are two things about it that concern me, and that very few people seem to want to discuss.

First of all, in response to this particular essay, I am at a loss, even after all my study of the matter, to understand how the study of Latin prepares students to engage the culture. Rather the study of a language that is no longer spoken seems to me to be the type of knowledge Paul had in mind when he spoke of knowledge that “puffs up”. I have read the lists of all the things Latin supposedly accomplishes, but as a teacher, it seems to me that these objectives are more efficiently accomplished through the study of English grammer and vocabulary and the study of a living, Latin-based language, like French or Spanish. If our goal is truly to produce students who will influence the culture in which God in His providence has placed them, it seems as though Spanish would be the best choice.

My second concern really refers to your previous essay about the classical school as a ministry of the church. Understand that I have no lack of affection for St. Stephen’s Academy. I greatly miss our family’s involvement with the school. But I am concerned about efforts to make St. Stephen’s into a classical, preparatory school–a school which, by it’s very nature, must be exclusive rather than inclusive. I have no problem with Christian preparatory academies to rival the finest prep schools in the area (i.e. Catlin Gable, Oregon Episcopal, etc.). My concern has to do with such schools as a ministry of a local church. What other ministry of the church is exclusive rather than inclusive? Is it right to use the resources of the local church to develop an institution of learning that is beyond the reach of a significant number of church goers, either because of steep tuition or because of restrictive academic requirements? I’m not saying either of these are currently true in the case of SSA. I do, however, wonder if some might not like to see the school move in that direction. Should it do so, then would you question it’s appropriateness as a ministry of the local church?

I raise these questions hoping to stir discussion, preferably the kind of discussion that generates more light than heat. But if you think it will do otherwise, feel free to refrain my publishing my comments. I would, however, like to know your response. Perhaps you could email it to me.

Again, thanks for taking the time to write these essays and post them to your blog. They were well worth reading. God bless!

Margie

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