Comments on: Bible Study Q’s for this Week: I Corinthians 15: 12-34 http://nathanlewis.org/2007/06/08/bible-study-questions-for-this-week-i-corinthians-61-11/ living the gospel Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:04:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.7 by: nathan http://nathanlewis.org/2007/06/08/bible-study-questions-for-this-week-i-corinthians-61-11/#comment-56972 Fri, 04 Jan 2008 02:24:49 +0000 http://nathanlewis.org/2007/06/08/bible-study-questions-for-this-week-i-corinthians-61-11/#comment-56972 This statement of Paul is founded on his illustrations of Olympic athletes. His main point is that we should diligently work on our Christian behavior/life. Do we work as hard as an Olympian training to compete in his event? In summation, Paul puts himself into his illustration describing his diligence as the training of an athlete. His point is that he practices what he preaches. What is he preaching at the moment? His sermonic point is that Christians ought to work long and hard to live holy lives pleasing to God. Paul not only tells us to do this, but he himself is working out his salvation with fear and trembling knowing that it is God who works in him to will and to do his good pleasure. The body is important and we do not care to slip into Gnostic denial of the body and its connection to soul and viable spirituality. However, this is not a citation in which Paul is asking us to keep our bodies fit so that our minds are clear and our spirits pure. Thanks for listening Dann and searching the scriptures. I personally have discovered much confusion in the church during my lifetime lurking in discussions about the distinction between literal and the figurative. More later, if you wish. nathan. This statement of Paul is founded on his illustrations of Olympic athletes. His main point is that we should diligently work on our Christian behavior/life. Do we work as hard as an Olympian training to compete in his event? In summation, Paul puts himself into his illustration describing his diligence as the training of an athlete. His point is that he practices what he preaches. What is he preaching at the moment? His sermonic point is that Christians ought to work long and hard to live holy lives pleasing to God. Paul not only tells us to do this, but he himself is working out his salvation with fear and trembling knowing that it is God who works in him to will and to do his good pleasure.
The body is important and we do not care to slip into Gnostic denial of the body and its connection to soul and viable spirituality. However, this is not a citation in which Paul is asking us to keep our bodies fit so that our minds are clear and our spirits pure.
Thanks for listening Dann and searching the scriptures.
I personally have discovered much confusion in the church during my lifetime lurking in discussions about the distinction between literal and the figurative. More later, if you wish.
nathan.

]]> by: Dann http://nathanlewis.org/2007/06/08/bible-study-questions-for-this-week-i-corinthians-61-11/#comment-56901 Thu, 03 Jan 2008 04:49:28 +0000 http://nathanlewis.org/2007/06/08/bible-study-questions-for-this-week-i-corinthians-61-11/#comment-56901 So . . . is verse 9:27 literal or figurative, "But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."? The footnotes quote the Greek literal translation, "I pummel my body and make it a slave" Not sure I like the ESV translation because it takes away from the possible discussion of figurative/literal, unless one looks at the footnote. I was very much hoping you would tackle that verse when you preached the passage. Here's a quote; "Was this metaphor? It hurts fighting this battle for the prize. Sometimes this fight for personal discipline gets so strenuous, that our physical being actually hurts!" This passage goes hand in hand with the reality/metaphor debate with Jesus' words in these passages: Matt 5:29-30, "If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell." Matt 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire." Mark 9:43-50, "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 'where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.' For everyone will be salted with fire. Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another." Feeding fire to the debate is this comment from Calvin, "The commandments and prohibitions always contain more than is expressed in words." I'm not sure Paul's intent was the same as Jesus', however. Jesus ridiculed the idea that surgically removing an offending member would cure our disease of sin. If we were to follow that course of action - blaming the eye or hand or foot for the sin - eventually we'd ask the surgeon's scalpel to cut ourselves into oblivion! Paul, on the other hand . . . was his intent literal or figurative? So . . . is verse 9:27 literal or figurative, “But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”? The footnotes quote the Greek literal translation, “I pummel my body and make it a slave” Not sure I like the ESV translation because it takes away from the possible discussion of figurative/literal, unless one looks at the footnote. I was very much hoping you would tackle that verse when you preached the passage.

Here’s a quote; “Was this metaphor? It hurts fighting this battle for the prize. Sometimes this fight for personal discipline gets so strenuous, that our physical being actually hurts!”

This passage goes hand in hand with the reality/metaphor debate with Jesus’ words in these passages:

Matt 5:29-30, “If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”

Matt 18:8-9, “And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.”

Mark 9:43-50, “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire. Salt is good, but if the salt has lost its saltiness, how will you make it salty again? Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another.”

Feeding fire to the debate is this comment from Calvin, “The commandments and prohibitions always contain more than is expressed in words.” I’m not sure Paul’s intent was the same as Jesus’, however.

Jesus ridiculed the idea that surgically removing an offending member would cure our disease of sin. If we were to follow that course of action - blaming the eye or hand or foot for the sin - eventually we’d ask the surgeon’s scalpel to cut ourselves into oblivion!

Paul, on the other hand . . . was his intent literal or figurative?

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